Balance Thoughts: The Issues With Hunter Part 1: Hunter’s Role.

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With Sega recently announcing that they’re going to re-consider class balance over the next 6 months (you can read about their announcement at Bumped), while also deciding that maybe they need a team in charge of balance 2 years after the game was released (oh you guys). The first classes to be hit by this change will be Ranger mostly, with Techer, Hunter and Fighter getting more minor adjustments (at the bottom of the post under “Other Adjustments”). All classes in definite need of help, while at some point Braver will be having its primary photon art reigned in and Gunner will be having its “double all my damage if I flip” skill nerfed. Shunka Shunran and S-Roll JA Bonus. Shunka Shunran needed to be nerfed a long time ago, but Gunner’s skills aren’t necessarily why the class is so strong. More on that, later.

So as the title suggests, this post will be looking at Hunters in particular, with the focus on them as a main class as opposed to a sub. I enjoy the Hunter class more than any in the game, however I have played Fighter, Braver and Gunner pretty extensively too. As much as I love the class, I have no illusions about where it stands in the current game. That said, this post is still how I feel, as such your opinions may differ or I could plain be completely wrong about something.

This is also going to be a considerably long post probably, so I will split it up into multiple parts.

Hunter’s Role.

The first thing to consider is, what is a Hunter? Hunter is a slow, heavy class. It’s backed up by a high S-atk pool and has high hit-points and defense to help it survive, given that the class can’t dodge damage as easily as others can. Its weapons are all focused on dealing damage to a large number of enemies at once, as opposed to hitting single enemies. In the days of old, the single-target melee damage was Fighter’s domain. They’re still pretty good at it, actually.

Hunter has many survival skills at its disposal, with the near game-changing Automate Halfline, the impressive Iron Will, the functional and weirdly named Massive Hunter and Absorption which restores HP when enemies die nearby (only with Guard Stance on). It even has Pretty Good, another weirdly named skill, that reduces status-effect duration on the player by 70%. It also has general damage-reduction skills. Combine the above with skills such as War Cry and you have yourself quite a tank. Not that this game needs a tank…

What Went Wrong

I feel a number of things have contributed to Hunter’s current position. This is not to say that Hunter can’t be played well or that it can’t do well in the current end-game, because it certainly can. The key here is that it absolutely not competitive right now, in any area of the game.

Diminished Attack Role.

As I said before, Hunter’s role was that of the area-of-effect melee attacker. Its individual hits may not have been high, but it could hit a lot of things at once. Certainly on the game’s release and on the arrival of the new classes this role was well maintained. To an extent, the class still does alright today. It is however completely outclassed in this regard by the likes of Braver’s Kanran.

Compare Nova Strike to Kanran Kikyou.

Nova Strike
Nova Strike
Kanran Kikyou
Kanran Kikyou

Yeah, OK, Hunter does have better area skills than this, what with various Wired Lance photon arts and Slide End, but I feel this just illustrates a funny approach to their weapons design. Here we have a great-sword being completely and utterly out-classed in area of effect functionality by a flimsy little one-handed sword.

This trend of course seems set to continue with the imminent introduction of Kazan Nadeshiko. A reminder:

over-ended

Remember that Kazan Nadeshiko has both longer reach and is faster than Over End. How the two will compare after the upcoming patch however (Over End is getting buffed) we shall see.

So we have a weapon which, for the most part, completely out-classes all of Hunter’s abilities as a area-of-effect melee attacker. It’s just that it happens that Katana also has massively superior single-target damage to Hunter as well. There’s no sugarcoating, Braver as it is right now makes Hunter completely obsolete.

B-but, Hunter weapon gears make their weapons good!

Katana can do all the things Hunter weapons can, but better, without having to warm-up through charging weapon gear. Yes, the area of effect of geared Partisan attacks is enormous, but Kanran Kikyou’s is the same or larger. Swords are nippy and have great coverage when geared up, but Katanas are nippier all the time. Wired lance… just hits a bit harder but its still good! Katana hits harder and does more DPS than all Wired Lance Photon Arts, with the possible exception of Holding Current.

Hunter weapon gears do close the gap a fair way, but right now it just takes far too long for Swords to gain gear, with the other two weapons still having to take at least a few seconds to warm up. The fact that the weapons are, overall, still inferior to Katana even after warming up is just salt in the wound.

I realise I only focused on Hunter vs Braver here. It’s because it’s fairer to compare melee area-of-effect attackers against each other as opposed to comparing it with the ranged classes. Fighter was, until recently, solely a single-target damager. It has recently gained some area-of-effect capability that puts it on par with many of Hunter’s attacks, but are a shadow of what Braver can do. As for single-target damage, I actually argue that Fighter isn’t that far behind Braver, if not better in some situations. I diverge, though, this post is about Hunter’s problems, not Fighter’s.

In Part 2 I will be talking about Fury Stance and the various issues that has.

4 thoughts on “Balance Thoughts: The Issues With Hunter Part 1: Hunter’s Role.”

  1. I think the main problem with HUs is mainly because of how fast enemies are in SH. Back in the days of VHAQs, Hunters could easily just ass bust with their eyes closed and not even worry about anything. While Assault Buster is still good in SH, its still outclassed by stuff like Shunka and as you mentioned, Kanran. Bosses also move and attack too quickly and hunters spend most of their time dodging attacks and barely attacking and that’s not fun. That’s why IMO Automate Halfline gain some usefulness with SH. It’s pretty sad when over half of my Hunter’s equips are fighter weapons. Maybe the over end buff could help but I don’t see it happening due to enemies moving too fast. Slide End has a big possibly of being good.

    1. Yeah hadn’t considered this.. Hunter was a class designed when the game itself was different. If things are to get faster as newer difficulties are released, the speed problem only gets worse.

  2. Since Sakai has abandoned worries about the game balance, now trying balancing the game with many people worried about making the best DPS for instakilling bosses at 10 seconds is now an impossible thing, unless you want seeing people crying because their DPS of more than 1,5m is getting nerfed for that reason.

    I don’t consider HU as an obsolete class. However, people is not used to play classes because they want. Just, they’re playing the best classes because they want be the most powerful players in a game which defensive stats of mobs and bosses are extremely low. That’s pathetic seeing closed people which never play as they want because the big ammount of DPS that you can do with some combos like BR/HU with shunka or GU/GU with 623% of DPS because the S-Roll JA Bonus.

    Greetings.

  3. I PRAY they further BUFF and tweek Hunter. Here’s what I think they should do:
    1) increase the attacking speed of all SWORD PA’s
    2) Increase the radius/range for “area of effect” Sword PA’s
    3) Raise the damage boost that come from HU skills (only if Hunter is Main class)
    4) Greatly boost the JA Bonus skill for Sword based Just attacks.
    5) Slightly increase the damage output of Wired Lance PA’s and Sword PA’s.
    6) raise Critical Hit damage if a player does a JA, JA, PA combo.
    IF they did all these it would great improve Hunter IMO.

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